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| Will This Beer Bother You? |
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"Will this beer bother you?" We have become a church that is so blatantly hostile towards the behaviors that we have personal convictions about that God’s own hurt children have to begin a conversation with a known Christian in a manner that allows the “mature” Christian to opt out or act self righteous…who and what have we become??? My brother is more concerned about offending me than he thinks I am about his needs…and he feels that way because that is what we do.
I once rebuked a man for smoking outside of the youth building at an old church because I didn’t want the kids to see it…here is what I kindly left out…He was a lost person who had never been to our church before who was sitting under our canopy because it was pouring and he was on a bike. Instead of asking his name, I judged him and made him feel dirty…I had become the Pharisee at the altar casting judgment on the tax collector. I could have sown a seed of love and all I did was further his discouragement. TJ Hasha (a good old friend) gave me a sound lashing instantly and attempted to reconcile the matter…but it was too late. So when I say we…its because we all do it. Some of us figure it out and some don’t.
We are a church plagued with sexual immorality that runs from the doors to the pulpits…addictions to slander and gossip, discouragement and division run so deep we can’t tell their end from their beginning. We sell prayers, prophecies, and healing for offerings and place mortal man on pedestals of perfection yet we focus our attention on taboos…unwritten laws that we have decided for ourselves fall in line with sin and turn our face away from biblically pronounced sin…
Drink your beer, it neither bothers me nor God…He is concerned with matters of the heart…I am now trying to follow that lead. By the way…I’m glad you’re here…how have you been? |
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| To add a comment to "Will This Beer Bother You?" |
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| October 07, 2009 |
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Ouch Mr. Patrick, that hurt, but it's true, we all are guilty at one time or another, and if anyone says their not, I'd debate it. I have be that Pharise a few times in my life. I always say we can't help the world untill we get ourselves straightened up.
I don't need a mirrow, it's sorta easy to get that beam out of my eye without one. |
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| October 07, 2009 |
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| Hey bro, where did all the old comments go? (I don't recall....did this one get controversial?) |
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| October 08, 2009 |
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Thank you Crystal. It is hard for one to throw stones from ones knees.
Mike, I am not sure where they went...and I don't think anything negative was on here. I am not sure unless Mychurch decided to delete them...b/c I sure didn't.
I do know that I was new to blogging then and did not know I was supposed to moderate the discussion. I just listed a topic and let people discourse. Oops! |
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| October 08, 2009 |
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| ain't that what's we're suppose to do? If not, I've sure messed up, Big time |
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| October 08, 2009 |
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Well I never interacted with the blog. I just watched conversations. It was at the infancy of MyChurch and I had just undergone a serious series of surgeries to get me back to functioning at "normal" due to some military injuries.
There was a lot of time for me to kill confined to a bed...so I found this group and got involved. Early on there was a lot of bickering and even some agitation by non-christian groups...that seems to have ceased.
By the way, being confined to a bed and loaded up with pain killers is grounds for strongly considering not to enter into controversial discussions... |
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| October 08, 2009 |
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| AMEN,... |
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| October 09, 2009 |
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| [star!] |
This Bud's for you!! God bless!!! |
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| October 10, 2009 |
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| Thanks Ronnie. He has |
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| October 27, 2009 |
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| [star!] |
Adding my star to a great blog! |
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| October 27, 2009 |
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We all have done those things, but we hopefully grow in grace and wisdom. I used to be much more on people, but now it's like whatever. sometimes maybe Christians may think I'm lax, but I'm anything but in those regards. I just think like Jesus cleans the fish, not us. I know Christians who smoke, and I just leave that between them and the Lord. Heck, I know Christians who drink beer. I mean if I get all hung up on what this person or that person is doing, I lose sight of the important stuff, namely love. And we aren't to judge those in the world. We all know the Scripture, we are to judge only those within the church. It may seem extreme, but i remember the first year I was saved. I went to visit a good friend and she and her cousin asked me if I minded them going into the other room (in HER apartment---I was staying with her for a week) and smoke a doobie. I said, no, go ahead. And they did. I can do stoned off dope ppl; drunks are harder to handle. lol I just treated them like with no sort of disdain or condemnation. I just didn't do it and they knew I wouldn't. They weren't saved. And they would likely NEVER get saved if I thumbed my nose down at them for that. |
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| October 27, 2009 |
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As a matter of fact. I believe a Christian should set a standard. I don't think it looks good for anyone to be knock down drunk. As it is said. There are sprits in the bottle. Some drink to an acess and behaive very badly. They hurt their wives and children. But, my dad did not even drink and he beat me day and night until I had to stand up to him. I would not have hit him. But, I had to tell him I would if he punched me again. So much for surbrity.
I loved my dad. I could not understand why he did the things he did. He used to hurt animals also. I never saw him have more than two beers in his life.
I have always enjoyed a beer or two. A good scotch, and a cigar once in a while. I have never went looking for a fight in my life. I am also a combat veteran of the Vietnam conflict. Many say I could be really dangerous if I got angry.
I have been back from the war for some 41 years. The only fights I have been in since I returned were started by someone else. And I finished it. They did not occure in a bar either.
It is just my opinion. I could be wrong. But, I believe if Jesus is really in you. You will not let any sprit in a bottle get the best of you.
But, as I commented. Some people may just use the booze to hide the hate in them. That was my dad. God forgive him. |
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| October 28, 2009 |
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Thanks Birdie
Lara, I think your point that God cleans the fish is well said. I think also that sometimes we invent sins that we think are managable in order to keep from dealing with the ones that aren't...like slander...
Ronnie, I agree that it doesn't take alcohol to be a person who does harm. I am glad that you took the stand with your dad within the context you explain. Honoring parents does not mean you have to become a doormat for them. I fact, the act of standing up for what is right when they are dead set on doing wrong can in fact be a form of honoring b/c we will be judged harshly for abusing our family and if one is able to shake our view, they have saved us.
I am also a combat veteran, though slightly younger. I will leave your opinion about your consumsion for others to ponder |
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| October 28, 2009 |
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| You got it bro! I am well aware of those sins being discusting in God's sight! In fact, sowing discord among brethren is an abomination! yet we make a bigger thing of homosexuality!!!!! Did I say that out loud? lol |
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| October 29, 2009 |
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Well I think that is another blog in itself (dealing with our appropriate response to homosexuality). At least homosexuality is a named sin with a named consequence...but dress codes as far as tucking in shirts and styles of clothes (not modesty) and the use of tobacco as well as media are not directly mentioned yet we seem to have formed doctrine around those things and have ignored what God has mandated (to include homosexuality and heterosexuality and lying and slandering and coveting and...).
I believe that we should be teaching on proper respectful dress and that we should draw conclusions from the Word and compare them to today's social vices. I believe that we can and should...but we seem to spend more time on the things we think we can control and quietly ignore the things we aren't...even pretend they are not a problem.
Kind of reminds me of the carfax commercials. God is asking for our "carfax" on our life and we are responding with "I have better, I have a letter" |
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| October 29, 2009 |
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That is terrible. I am sorry for what that must have done to your family and I am sorry for that foolish pastor who couldn't stop looking down his nose long enough to see what was before his eyes...
Christians who think the consumption of alcohol is a sin should not spend any time outside of their bubble... I know many a strong Christian that enjoy a couple of drinks in the presence of close friends and family...and they love the Lord and are effective in their walk and ministry.. |
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| October 29, 2009 |
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| Thank you for that. I once belonged to a church that banned Christmas. Then I joined a church that banned dancing. Then I was in a church that banned beer and wine. I am now free and partake of all three without guilt or shame. I am no longer tied to the rules made up by mere men. If Jesus or his apostles did not ban it, I ignore it. I even partake of it purposefully in front of "mature" Christians to prod them into following Christ and not be imprisoned by the vain rules of men. |
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| November 03, 2009 |
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go ahead ask a woman who child has just been killed by a beer drinker. Go ahead and ask her while she paying for the funeral if there anything wrong beer. She would claw them thoughts right out your mind. |
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| November 04, 2009 |
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Easy Timothy, and that is your opinion. I have delt with people who have lost loved ones to DUI's, and it is not for the alcohol that they seek justice...it is with the consumer.
Besides, the point of this blog is not to discuss the religious views of alcohol but of the fallout of the fact that many Christian "ministers" have demanded that the fish clean themselves before qualifying for us to give them our time...
Many unbelievers feel that they must first meet our standards before they can gain our attention. That is what this is about...the fact that a hurting guy was sure that the idea of him drinking a beer would surely disqualify him from receiving ministry...that is a shame when the fish are apologizing to the fishermen for their own state of being.
Keep this in mind...the number of fatalities caused by drivers falling asleep at the wheel is similar to DUI fatalities...if alcohol is to stand trial then for that then what should we do for graveyard shifts or insomniacs.
I try to keep in perspective how much God must clean me continually when I begin to notice the dirt covering those who God sends my way. I need Him and I am found...what should we expect from those who are lost or astray? |
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| November 07, 2009 |
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Hi Patrick Hazard~
Very intriguing blog. Thank You! I don't think the Holy Bible forbids having a beer, even for Deacons of the Church. I am a Deacon in our local Church body, having met all the qualifications required. Our local Church body does not want the Church officers (Elders, Deacons, etc.) praying over anyone while we have beer, and/or, tobacco on our breath. (Could be a very bad wittness!)
Beware of physiological tolerance, more and more alcohol is needed to produce the desired effects (Buzz/Relaxation). The first human aspect to go from alcohol ingestion is Judgment.
Only The Lord God of Hosts has the authority to judge someone (well, we are to judge ourselves). "A New Commandment I Give Unto You, That You Love One Another." |
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| November 07, 2009 |
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| [star!] |
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| November 07, 2009 |
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Hey Ken, thanks for sharing your thoughts.
I do want to stress again that this blog was not intended to discuss whether Christians can or cannot drink. That is a subject that should probably be left to individual churches to decide for themselves how they will approach this matter. The sides are far to split for anything good to be done here. Debate on this topic with little moderation control can and will turn ugly quick...almost suprising how upset people get over this topic...yikes. I am aware of churches who are ok with it and those that aren't.
If a person is submitting themselves to the authority of a church whose leadership is absolutely against any form of alcoholic consumption and the person drinks anyways, that person needs to consider what he (or she) is doing with great care.
However it is important to stress that we should not be demanding that the people who show up at our doors be cleaned and ready before we consider them worth our time. Many of them believe that we feel that way...that was the motivation for this entry...and this blog is old but continues to resurface. The world thinks we are snobs and partial to our own...and we have fed them much of their belief...sadly.
It is also important to note that the Bible tells us that we are not to judge those who are not part of the church but that we are to judge those who define themselves as Christians (1 Cor 5). But it also gives a clear standard for the things we are to consider so it very important to distinguish the difference between a person who consumes a drink and a drunkard...and the difference is easy in my opinion. |
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| November 08, 2009 |
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Total agreement with You Patrick. I hope Your blog multiplies it's readers and commenters many times over. (although, approximately 3,000 reads is not bad at all!) Thank You for Your time and explanation regarding my comment.
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| November 11, 2009 |
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| Hey Ken, thank you. |
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