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| Salvation And Sinful Habits |
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| I want to talk about a subject that came up one morning during Sunday School: when a person receives Jesus as his/her personal Savior, does that mean that all sinful habits disappear? For example, if a person smoked before he got saved, does he automatically stop after he gets saved? The argument that Sunday was that some people knew of individuals who got saved but still needed time to stop certain sinful habits. Someone else made the point that we must be taught right from wrong before we can repent of sins and stop them. In other words, we must be made aware of wrongdoings, and then the Holy Spirit can help us do what's right. I know we all commit sins on a daily basis, but I'm talking about sinful habits. What do you think about this subject? |
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| To add a comment to "Salvation And Sinful Habits" |
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| November 06, 2007 |
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Well, Dennis, let me tell you what I think. Thanks for the opportunity.
Conviction:
I think conviction and Christian maturity work like this. Point a flashlight at a wall, with the flashlight about a foot from the wall, and turn it on. You'll see a relatively small circle. Pull the flashlight away from the wall, the circle grows bigger. The Holy Spirit convicts a new believer of relatively few things. As the believer matures, the Holy Spirit convicts of more things.
Sinful Habits:
Paul talked a lot about sinful habits in Romans 7. I'd suggest reading the whole thing. He's speaking in the present tense, so it's relevant to a Christian's life. In Romans 7:15 he says he doesn't understand his own actions. In Romans 7:16, he speaks of doing "[habitually] what is contrary to my desire". The gist of the whole chapter is this: We Christians have two natures - a Godly nature that wants to please God and a fleshly nature (or sinful nature) that wants to please itself. One part of Christian maturity is learning to express the Godly nature more, and the fleshly nature less.
Bondage:
This is where addictions come in. An addiction is a sinful habit a person does, where they get something from the sin that makes it hard to give it up.
Here's an example: a man gains his comfort and identity from what he accomplishes. This is sinful because he should get his identity from Christ and what Christ thinks of him. He should gain his comfort from Christ’s provision. Instead, he gains so much identity and comfort from achievement, he ignores responsibilities to his family, and his friends to achieve things. Achievement is what he uses to deal with any question of his worth, which is how he gains comfort from it. The psychological term is workaholism.
This is an example of a good thing (achievement), taken in a bad context. People can gain comfort and identity from just about anything: sex, drugs, religious activity, food, sports, making money, spending money, controlling other people, trying to control themselves...
Victory over bondage is a long process. For sexual addiction, it normally take 3-5 years. It always involves other people, who support and encourage (Gal 6:1-5, James 5:16).
Standing Before God:
Understanding this changed my life. In Colossians 1:21-23, I learned that God has declared me Holy when I accepted Him as savior and lord. I'm not a nasty sinner trying to live a Godly life. I'm a Godly saint who doesn't always live up to it. Knowing that God accepts me in spite of my behavior helps me change my behavior. I don't need to worry that God is about to smite me if I say doo doo if I fall over a chair. In Christ, God accepts me as His son regardless of my behavior. That means I can find my identity apart from my behavior. I can deal with my actions one decision at a time. In fact, since God is my ever present help in time of trouble, God and I can take each action one decision at a time. As I get practice at this type of living, my life ends up becoming more Godly.
Romans 7:14-25 (Amplified)
14 We know that the Law is spiritual; but I am a creature of the flesh [carnal, unspiritual], having been sold into slavery under [the control of] sin.
15 For I do not understand my own actions [I am baffled, bewildered]. I do not practice or accomplish what I wish, but I do the very thing that I loathe [which my moral instinct condemns].
16 Now if I do [habitually] what is contrary to my desire, [that means that] I acknowledge and agree that the Law is good (morally excellent) and that I take sides with it.
17 However, it is no longer I who do the deed, but the sin [principle] which is at home in me and has possession of me.
18 For I know that nothing good dwells within me, that is, in my flesh. I can will what is right, but I cannot perform it. [I have the intention and urge to do what is right, but no power to carry it out.]
19 For I fail to practice the good deeds I desire to do, but the evil deeds that I do not desire to do are what I am [ever] doing.
20 Now if I do what I do not desire to do, it is no longer I doing it [it is not myself that acts], but the sin [principle] which dwells within me [fixed and operating in my soul].
21 So I find it to be a law (rule of action of my being) that when I want to do what is right and good, evil is ever present with me and I am subject to its insistent demands.
22 For I endorse and delight in the Law of God in my inmost self [with my new nature].
23 But I discern in my bodily members [[d]in the sensitive appetites and wills of the flesh] a different law (rule of action) at war against the law of my mind (my reason) and making me a prisoner to the law of sin that dwells in my bodily organs [in the sensitive appetites and wills of the flesh].
24 O unhappy and pitiable and wretched man that I am! Who will release and deliver me from [the shackles of] this body of death?
25 O thank God! [He will!] through Jesus Christ (the Anointed One) our Lord! So then indeed I, of myself with the mind and heart, serve the Law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin.
Galatians 6:1-5 (Amplified)
1 BRETHREN, IF any person is overtaken in misconduct or sin of any sort, you who are spiritual [who are responsive to and controlled by the Spirit] should set him right and restore and reinstate him, without any sense of superiority and with all gentleness, keeping an attentive eye on yourself, lest you should be tempted also.
2 Bear (endure, carry) one another's burdens and troublesome moral faults, and in this way fulfill and observe perfectly the law of Christ (the Messiah) and complete what is lacking [in your obedience to it].
3 For if any person thinks himself to be somebody [too important to condescend to shoulder another's load] when he is nobody [of superiority except in his own estimation], he deceives and deludes and cheats himself.
4 But let every person carefully scrutinize and examine and test his own conduct and his own work. He can then have the personal satisfaction and joy of doing something commendable [in itself alone] without [resorting to] boastful comparison with his neighbor.
5 For every person will have to bear (be equal to understanding and calmly receive) his own [little] load [of oppressive faults].
James 5:16 (Amplified)
Confess to one another therefore your faults (your slips, your false steps, your offenses, your sins) and pray [also] for one another, that you may be healed and restored [to a spiritual tone of mind and heart]. The earnest (heartfelt, continued) prayer of a righteous man makes tremendous power available [dynamic in its working].
Colossians 1:21-23 (Amplified)
21 And although you at one time were estranged and alienated from Him and were of hostile attitude of mind in your wicked activities,
22 Yet now has [Christ, the Messiah] reconciled [you to God] in the body of His flesh through death, in order to present you holy and faultless and irreproachable in His [the Father's] presence.
23 [And this He will do] provided that you continue to stay with and in the faith [in Christ], well-grounded and settled and steadfast, not shifting or moving away from the hope [which rests on and is inspired by] the glad tidings (the Gospel), which you heard and which has been preached [as being designed for and offered without restrictions] to every person under heaven, and of which [Gospel] I, Paul, became a minister.
Notes on Colossians 1:21-23.
In verse 22, the Greek verb that's translated into "to present" is used in a way that says the presentation already occurred at the moment of salvation.
In verse 23, the only condition is continued faith in Christ and the Gospel. Notice that it does not say "provided that you don't sin" in any way.
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| November 06, 2007 |
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Very well said, Jess; I don't think I could have said it better even if I had managed to gather the thoughts.
We see some examples of how God dealt with such instances of habitual sins. I think David's incident with Bathsheba is comparable as he was caught in a cycle of sin; and this was after the Spirit of God was in him, after he was "saved". This type of thing can be with us, but it's all a matter of how we deal with it; it may take time to recognize these sins, and time to work our way out of the cycle.
But we must remember that Adonai Himself knows that it can and often is difficult to get out because of our sinful flesh.
Hope I could help somehow. |
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| November 06, 2007 |
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We are naturally selfish beings - that doesn't change simply because we recognize our Savior. We still have to deal with the disturbing fact that what we did before - either knowingly or unknowingly what was wrong - is now staring us in the face as a fallen nature. it doesn't make us any less saved. It's like watching color TV after having everything in black and white. The picture is still there. We only see it more clearly and in all its detail.
Peace Dennis. We all need to daily work on it.
2:12 So then, my loved ones, as you have at all times done what I say, not only when I am present, but now much more when I am not with you, give yourselves to working out your salvation with fear in your hearts;
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| November 06, 2007 |
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Great points guys. Dennis, that's why the Bible talks about having our minds renewed. We are to stop conforming to the patterns of this world but be transformed by the renewing of our minds (Romans 12:2). We are constantly changing into who Christ desires us to be as we continue to renew our minds. It is a daily battle. They can be overcome but there not always just gone. Even someone who miraculously gets healed from an addiction still has to learn a new way of doing things so that he doesn't go back to that thing that had him stuck in the first place.
Great question. We can never have this discussion to much. |
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| November 06, 2007 |
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5:16 But I say, walk by the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
I think one of the important things here is fellowship and accountability. We can go way further together than any of us can do alone. There have been some excellent points made. |
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| November 07, 2007 |
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| Well heck, I was gonna give my 2 cents but then I saw that it's already out there! (Good job Jess and others!) I would just say that as I've matured, I've been less apt to give in to shame (which drives people AWAY from God) and more able to persevere in the faith, remaining close to God. This has resulted in the disappearance of a LOT of sinful habits in my own life! This is about the most practical thing I can share. God bless! ~mike |
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| November 07, 2007 |
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| I know that even though I am saved, I still sin. I am certainly more aware of it now than before, and I try harder not to, but I am still human and still sin. I have been made aware of some things that I need to work on myself, that God has been showing me, as I have explained in my blog here Hitting A Bump In The Road (sorry for the plug but it kind of goes along with this). I think God knows our heart, and He knows when we are truly sorry for things we do, and He is there to help us stop the sinful habit once we become aware of it. We won't ever be perfect until we pass from here to there, but we should be willing to try to do our best for God. |
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| November 10, 2007 |
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| Hi Great one keep it up and God Bless You Doyle Crowe. |
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| November 10, 2007 |
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We are a Spirit, we have a soul (mind, will, & emotions), and we live in a body.
When we get born again our Spirit is made brand new but the old habits which reside in the soul are still there. It is through the renewing of the mind that those things which are in the spirit become imbedded into the soul. Our bodies, or flesh, have to fall in line with what our soul is telling it to do.
It takes time to retrain our mind, will & emotions to line up with God's Word. But in the SPirit realm we are brand new!
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| January 08, 2008 |
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| We're all still growing! Everyday should bring more refining of ourselves as we get to know God better and long to please Him more and more. |
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